Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/13/1993 05:00 PM House TRA
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
April 13, 1993
5:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Richard Foster, Chair
Representative Gary Davis, Vice-Chair
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative Al Vezey
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative Jerry Mackie
Representative Curt Menard
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING - nomination of Bruce A. Campbell, for
appointment as Commissioner, Department of Transportation
and Public Facilities.
HB 243: An Act requiring a licensed pilot for a tug boat
used with an oil barge on a river in a pilotage
region."
MOVED FROM COMMITTEE WITH INDIVIDUAL
RECOMMENDATIONS
*HB 46: "An Act relating to frequent traveler credit for
state-paid travel."
CANCELLED - TO BE RESCHEDULED
*HB 184: "An Act making a special appropriation to the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
to determine the cost of acquiring real property
within the right-of-way of the proposed extension
of the Alaska Railroad from Eilson Air Force Base
to the Alaska-Canada border; and providing for an
effective date."
CANCELLED - TO BE RESCHEDULED
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
BRUCE A. CAMPBELL, Acting Commissioner
Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801
465-3000
Position Statement: Provided testimony and answered
questions
regarding his appointment to
Commissioner.
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS
Alaska State Legislature
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-4945
Position Statement: Sponsor of HB 243
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN
Akiachak, Alaska 99551
Position Statement: Testified on HB 243
JOHNNY T. HAWK, President/Chief Executive Officer
CALISTA Corporation
601 W. 5th Avenue, Suite 200
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Position Dtatement: Testified in favor of HB 243
CAPTAIN CHARLES PHILLIPS
P.O. Box 74
Tuluksak, Alaska 99679
Position Statement: Testified on HB 243
CAPTAIN RON SUMSTAD
General Delivery
Bethel, Alaska 99559
224-3349
Position Statement: Supported HB 243
CARL LUCK
Division of Occupational Licensing
Department of Commerce and Economic Development
9th Floor State Office Building
Juneau, Alaska 99811
465-2534
Position Statement: Answered questions on HB 243
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 243
SHORT TITLE: PILOTS ON CERTAIN TUGS ON STATE WATERS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) SANDERS
TITLE: "An Act requiring a licensed pilot for a tug boat
used with an oil barge on a river in a pilotage region."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/19/93 709 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/19/93 709 (H) TRANSPORTATION
03/30/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/30/93 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
03/31/93 903 (H) JUD REFERRAL ADDED
04/13/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 46
SHORT TITLE: STATE-PAID TRAVEL MILEAGE CREDITS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN
TITLE: "An Act relating to frequent traveler credit for
state-paid travel."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/12/93 43 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/12/93 43 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, TRANSPORTATION,
FINANCE
03/20/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/20/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/30/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/30/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
04/03/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
04/05/93 972 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) 2DP 1DNP 3NR
04/05/93 972 (H) DP: VEZEY, OLBERG
04/05/93 972 (H) DNP: ULMER
04/05/93 972 (H) NR: B.DAVIS, G.DAVIS, KOTT
04/05/93 972 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (ADM) 4/5/93
04/05/93 972 (H) REFERRED TO TRANSPORTATION
04/06/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
04/13/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 184
SHORT TITLE: APPRO: AK RAILROAD EXTENSION STUDY
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES,Therriault,Olberg
TITLE: "An Act making a special appropriation to the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to
determine the cost of acquiring real property within the
right-of-way of the proposed extension of the Alaska
Railroad from Eielson Air Force Base to the Alaska-Canada
border; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/25/93 456 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/25/93 456 (H) TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE
04/06/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
04/13/93 (H) TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-15, SIDE A
Number 015
CHAIR FOSTER called the meeting to order at 5:20 p.m. He
apologized for the late start due to a Labor and Commerce
Meeting that went longer than anticipated.
Number 020
CHAIR FOSTER invited BRUCE CAMPBELL, ACTING COMMISSIONER OF
THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC FACILITIES
(DOT/PF), to address the committee and asked that Mr.
Campbell provide a briefing on his background.
Number 025
MR. CAMPBELL replied that he arrived in Alaska in 1952 and
went to work for the Alaska Road Commission under the
Department of Territories in the Department of the Interior.
Mr. Campbell stated he worked with them until the Bureau of
Public Roads took over and he stayed with them until
statehood. He said he worked for Public Works as Chief
Design Engineer between 1960 and 1962 and went to work for
the State Department of Highways as a Preconstruction
Engineer in direct charge of all Department activities in
preconstruction phase of highway projects.
MR. CAMPBELL stated he was appointed Assistant Commissioner
until 1967, when a new administration took over and asked
him to leave. He then worked for Burgess Construction on
the North Slope and all over Alaska. He said when Governor
Egan was re-elected in 1971, he served as Commissioner of
Highways. In 1975 he worked for the Alaska General
Construction Company as a Construction Manager.
Beginning in 1977 until the present time, Mr. Campbell
formed his own consulting firm and has specialized in
handling troubled construction projects for owners,
construction companies, bonding companies, insurance
companies, etc. Mr. Campbell said he has been semi-retired
for the last two years until he received a call about 3-
weeks ago.
Number 036
CHAIR FOSTER welcomed Mr. Campbell back to government.
CHAIR FOSTER asked the House Transportation Committee
members for their questions and comments regarding the
appointment before them.
Number 041
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD asked Mr. Campbell what he hoped to
accomplish.
Number 044
MR. CAMPBELL replied that in order of priority, the first
thing he hoped to do was inventory the people within DOT/PF
and determine how he can utilize their resources best. In
that process there may be some minor reorganization;
however, he didn't anticipate any real shake up. Mr.
Campbell stated he intended to get the moral of the
Department back up again so people have a sense of purpose;
he intends to give employees leadership and direction; and
will be a "hands on" Commissioner. He feels he is
technically and administratively well qualified and intends
to give them the direction they need to get going, and he
intends to do what the Constitution says, which is to plan,
design, construct, maintain and operate transportation
facilities within the state.
Number 058
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD asked Mr. Campbell if he had looked at
the Intermodel Surface Transportation Efficiency Act (ISTEA)
and asked what was presented for 1994.
Number 063
MR. CAMPBELL replied he has not looked; however, he felt
that the budgets were to a point when he came on last week
that he could not make any meaningful change in them. Mr.
Campbell stated he would live with what he had and his
changes would come up the next go around. He further stated
he had asked the Finance Committees to give him as much
latitude and room to move in their budgeting, and he would
appreciate whatever they were able to give him.
Number 072
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked Mr. Campbell what his feelings
were in regards to the Alaska Marine Highway System. He
also commented before Mr. Campbell replied that he wanted to
point out that he felt the ferry system was currently being
managed very efficiently and effectively in the eyes of the
public, as well as the Legislature. Representative Mackie
stated further that if you look at the general fund
obligations that have gone down, as well as the increase in
revenues that have increased, the relationship between those
two was outstanding.
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE also asked Mr. Campbell's feelings in
relation to the ferry system, the new ferry coming on-line,
and what was his overall support for the Marine Highway,
which is absolutely essential throughout Southeast and the
coastal communities as a transportation link.
Number 092
MR. CAMPBELL indicated he had a first-hand report from his
wife who travelled to Juneau from Haines this morning. He
indicated that everything was in great shape. He also
indicated he supported the ferry system. He mentioned that
he was on board in 1961 and 1962 when the ferry system was
conceived, and he remembers when the three ferries first
came up the channel, the Malaspina first, Taku second, and
the Matanuska third. He indicated he has always been a
strong supporter of the ferry system.
MR. CAMPBELL said he supports the construction of a new
ferry, the necessity for a new ferry; and the only problem
at this time was the money involved and the spacing of the
money. In order to construct that ferry, Mr. Campbell
stated, they would have to take a $55 million hit in the
federal highway money, $25 million in each of two years. He
said he was going to meet with the federal officials to see
if they could not spread that impact out so it doesn't
impact two years, but in three or four years. If that would
be possible, Mr. Campbell indicated he would be a lot
happier about the new ferry. He would also like to see if
some of the costs could be eliminated also. However, he
said he has not had enough time to see if it would be
possible.
Number 111
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked Mr. Campbell if he meant by
spreading out the cost over three or four years instead of
$25 million a year over two years, would that mean they
would have to wait three or four years for the ferry.
Number 114
MR. CAMPBELL replied not necessarily. What he was looking
at currently was the cash flow. It would be funded in two
years, but if he could make some kind of contractual
arrangement with the shipyard or something for a further
spread-out, it would help the overall transportation aspect
because those two hits in those two years would be severe
hits to the highway program overall. He felt it could be
worked out and said it was going to go.
Number 125
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked Mr. Campbell about his previous
statement mentioning cost cutting.
MR. CAMPBELL indicated he felt that he did not know, but the
number $75 million to $85 million was a lot of money to him
and he was always looking for a cut.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON complimented Mr. Campbell for his
previous work and for coming back and taking on a difficult
situation. Representative Hudson stated he was going to
echo some of the comments made by Representative Mackie
because some of them felt that the outgoing leadership
within DOT/PF had a negative vent against the ferry system,
a bias to some extent towards roads and rail, and said maybe
that was an improper charge.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said that through working with the
former Commissioner and others at DOT/PF, they were able to
set up the first strong positive move towards beginning to
modify and replace the fleet. The first thing obviously was
that the new vessel was to replace the Malaspina or take
over that run, as well as provide an on scene vessel in the
event of another oil spill. Representative Hudson stated
that whether we agree or disagree on the source of funds, he
felt good that they had gotten to the point in replacing one
of the major vessels. He said it may be that Mr. Campbell
could find some cost savings, and Representative Hudson
would certainly be willing to look at those with him. He
said he hoped that he could cut without doing what had
obviously been done on the Columbia. When the Columbia was
brought on board, they decided they wanted to reduce the
costs to such an extent that they cut down the scantlings on
the ship. Consequently, the Columbia never was permitted to
go across the open ocean due to lack of proper
specifications.
Number 170
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said he hoped that he could count on
Mr. Campbell to listen to the needs of Southeast, Southwest,
and look at a statewide approach in relation to roads and
ferries and could start out with this first big ship here.
Number 178
MR. CAMPBELL replied that it was certainly his intent. He
commented that Columbia's first estimate was $8 million, and
when they got to $22 million, that was when they cut out the
ocean crossing capabilities. Currently, all estimates on
ships now were $75 million to $85 million, and if you look
at every other ferry the state has built, they've doubled.
Number 183
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON replied that he took over the Columbia
as Mr. Campbell was leaving and inherited the Columbia, and
it took all of the four years he worked as the director to
the Marine Highway System to work out the bugs on the
Columbia. Representative Hudson mentioned various problems
that occurred with the Columbia and said he appreciated that
Mr. Campbell was going to stay committed to the ferry system
and also look at access by road as well.
Number 238
MR. CAMPBELL replied that he was sure Representative Hudson
realized that things had changed considerably since 1974.
Design and construction is currently the easy part, and the
environmental impact statements and permitting that are the
time constraints are things that cannot be controlled. Mr.
Campbell stated he had already started a procedure whereby
they get as many things going as early as possible in the
permitting process and hopefully some time will be able to
be cut here and there. He said he was definitely in accord
with Representative Hudson's desires, and those were his
basic goals.
Number 214
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said that in relation to the ISTEA
program, there had been a lot of local effort put into that
program. Part of the ISTEA program was the taking of a
percentage of the money and distributing it to the boroughs
within the state. He said those boroughs have put together
a program during the last year which has been ahead of its
time in relation to other states. He asked Mr. Campbell if
he was familiar with that program and was he going to
utilize the effort that has been put forward from the
borough level.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS indicated he was originally involved as
a mayor and had to drop out coming to the state level. He
said he was familiar with the amount of work, planning,
enthusiasm, and excitement created by the local areas.
Representative Davis asked if he was familiar with that and
if he was enthused about carrying on what has been planned
and expected of the program to date.
Number 238
MR. CAMPBELL responded that he was familiar with that plan,
and said that in relation to the enthusiasm mentioned by
Representative Davis, there was also some very serious
distraction associated with that plan. He indicated that
several boroughs were currently very much opposed to that
plan.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS replied that he knew of one.
MR. CAMPBELL said there was more than one. He said that as
a practical matter, he put that program on hold as of
yesterday for a one-year delay. The mechanism was not
available in most of the boroughs and most importantly,
within the DOT/PF, to effect that program. He said if that
program was in effect this year and he appeared before this
table next year, the committee members would not be pleased.
He stated the mechanisms needed to be put in place to
implement since it's just not as simple as passing money out
to boroughs. He said there is a wonderful plan put
together; however, little was done to develop the mechanisms
to meet federal requirements to receive federal pass-through
money. According to Mr. Campbell, if the boroughs do not
meet the requirements, or it is not administered correctly,
of course, the federal government does not participate, and
he will be back before the committee looking for a large
supplemental.
Number 255
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked what the time frame was, and
asked when the dollars would currently be available for
distribution if a plan was in place.
MR. CAMPBELL replied fiscal year 94. He said this doesn't
mean that the boroughs are not going to get projects. A lot
of the projects will simply get pulled into DOT/PF as a
DOT/PF entity. It is not like it will be a major change, he
said, it is more of an accounting or performance change than
anything else. He said there were currently boroughs who
are ready and willing to do this right now, and others who
aren't. Primarily, each borough needs to be looked at
individually and the plan tailored to fit that borough's
needs.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said that he thought that the state
handling the entire amount would assume increased DOT/PF
size and that was one aspect that was a positive aspect to a
lot of people. Especially if an extra $150 million per year
was coming into the state for road projects, and if it was
going to be administered and operated by DOT/PF, an increase
in the size of DOT/PF would be anticipated. He stated it
was impressive and somewhat exciting to see that some of
that would be contracted out to local road service areas and
thus not expand the size of DOT/PF.
Number 290
MR. CAMPBELL replied that if they started passing money into
the boroughs, they would have to have employees who were
overseeing this. If there are 10 borough projects that are
$50 thousand each, there would be somebody required to look
over those projects. People will need to be on board to
make sure we meet with federal requirements in the
accountants and engineers to comply. He said there may not
be expansion, however, there will not be a decrease. A
great number of projects for smaller amounts are proposed,
and even those projects require the same accountability.
The boroughs have all been notified and a lot of relief has
been relayed back in this regard.
Number 308
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked Mr. Campbell's view on
privatization, and if he was appreciative on possible
efforts to privatize. He said they would always be looking
at ways to do a better job. In some instances, they will
swap back and forth when it is in everybody's best interest.
Number 330
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE commented on the past administration
in relation to lack of maintenance on Class III roads. He
said these may be Class III roads in relation to an urban
standard, however, they may be the only road in a rural
standard area. Representative Mackie voiced his concerns
regarding past maintenance practices in relation to roads
where school buses travelled. He asked Mr. Campbell what
his feelings would be in turning those over to the
municipality completely to maintain. He also asked what Mr.
Campbell's feelings were toward privatization within the
ferry system.
Number 312
MR. CAMPBELL replied that the driving force behind
privatization would be economics and public service. If it
is economical to privatize and get better public service, he
said he is in favor of it. If it would be to privatize and
not get any better public service for the same money, he
would pursue that. Mr. Campbell indicated he would not be
interested in putting things out to private enterprize just
for the sake of private enterprize; there has to be an
economic or service reason to do it.
Number 356
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked to go back to the ISTEA issue
with Mr. Campbell and said that he would like to see pilot
projects. If there were boroughs who were ready to receive
money under this program, he felt it would be a neat
experiment to go ahead and give them their share and see how
they handle it. Those boroughs would be able to help other
boroughs in the future. He asked Mr. Campbell if he felt
that could be a possibility.
Number 366
MR. CAMPBELL replied that he did not want to see how
something works, he was going to direct how something works.
He felt that if he did not have the mechanism to make it
work successfully so everybody understands the ground rules,
he was not going to go out and experiment. The State of
Washington currently got audited by the federal government
in this type of thing and they lost about $18 million
dollars (this amount was just for this year). Their plan
has been in place for 20 years and they haven't gotten it
correct.
MR. CAMPBELL said he is not going to go out and do a pilot
project, he is going to see the things that have to happen,
and get the mechanisms in place to control that or he is not
going to go. He said he was not going to go put money out
on the street as an experiment, and he felt too much of that
had been done and he was going to stick with what works.
Number 379
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD asked about the $30 million in
projects that were being pulled back in.
MR. CAMPBELL said those projects that were currently being
planned were going to go ahead, they were just not going to
pass through. He said the department was going to be coming
out tomorrow with a plan to combine the borough
transportation plans and the regional operations into one
appropriation. Mr. Campbell felt it would be smooth and
simple and stressed the importance of waiting.
Number 390
CHAIR FOSTER commented that he grew up in the Bush area and
watched the old Alaska Road Commission evolve into the
Borough of Public Roads and then the Highways and then into
DOT. He said he recognized that Mr. Campbell had been one
of the few people to be around during all that time, and he
knows the evolution.
CHAIR FOSTER commented that he came from an air taxi
background and had always respected the air taxis. He said
a lot of the air taxis that he grew up with have always been
concerned about the landing fees, among other things, and he
hoped that Mr. Campbell would come up with plans and
policies and would keep him well informed so he could give
him a hand on this.
MR. CAMPBELL stated that as Representative Foster knew, he
had a lot of problems to solve. He further stated that as
he was aware of this concern and he has taken some steps and
is working on that right now.
Number 407
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON moved to advance the consideration of
Bruce Campbell to the full body for consideration.
Number 409
CHAIR FOSTER indicated upon hearing no objections that it
was so moved.
Number 415
CHAIR FOSTER appointed Representative Hudson to serve on a
Alaska Marine Highway Committee and also stated that if
there were no objections, he would also like to work with
Representative Hudson in that capacity, and he invited
anyone else who may be interested in relation to their
districts to participate also. There were no objections to
the appointment at that time.
HB 243 PILOTS ON CERTAIN TUGS ON STATE WATERS
Number 243
CHAIR FOSTER brought up CSHB 243(TRANS) for discussion
before the committee, indicating that the committee had
adopted this version before the last meeting adjourned.
CHAIR FOSTER referred to Representative Mulder for a
subcommittee report on HB 243.
Number 439
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER referred to the subcommittee report
dated April 13, 1993. He addressed the first concern which
was outlined in the letter of intent proposed by the
subcommittee for adoption, which follows::
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE
LETTER OF INTENT
CSHB 243(TRA)
The House Transportation Committee respectfully requests
that the House Judiciary Committee address the issue as to
whether the federal government has pre-emption over the
State of Alaska's jurisdiction in relation to licensing of
marine pilots on rivers as required by this legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER referred to the memorandum attached to
the subcommittee report dated April 5, 1993. As was
previously indicated by several attorneys, Terri Lauterback,
Legislative Counsel, was also unable to provide the
committee an answer with respect to federal pre-emption due
to time constraints and lack of background knowledge
concerning this area of federal law. The issue of pre-
emption appears to be sufficient concern to require further
study, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER also stated that within the past week,
the U.S. Coast Guard, Anchorage office, had taken steps to
develop testing standards for the Kuskokwim River. It has
been agreed that within the next year the Coast Guard would
develop testing standards, and federally licensed masters or
others navigating the river would first have to take an
examination before piloting the Kuskokwim. Representative
Mulder also felt that this Coast Guard action leads us to
believe that the Coast Guard is asserting its primary
jurisdiction over this river pilotage and at least
implicitly confirms the federal legal pre-emption of river
pilotage for domestic oil barge traffic.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that the issue was very cloudy
and that the underlying questions, the future of oil spills
in the area, and the preservation of the water quality in
terms of the environment and the economy of the local area,
warranted the continuation of this bill through the process.
At the same time, he noted there were some very serious
questions that could be addressed in the Judiciary Committee
before it could be considered for House floor action.
Number 473
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER entertained a motion to adopt the
proposed letter of intent for CSHB 243(TRANS). Hearing no
objection, CHAIR FOSTER indicated the letter was adopted.
Number 485
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY proposed an amendment:
Page 1, Line 9: delete: [15,000] and insert: [25,000].
Number 473
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER moved the letter of intent. Hearing
no objections, CHAIR FOSTER indicated the motion had passed.
Number 514
CHAIR FOSTER asked REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS to address
comments to the previous discussion at this time.
Number 520
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said that although he did not have a
lot of background, in regard to one of the things discussed
by Representative Mulder, it is extremely difficult to pass
legislation with the anticipation of what the federal
government or someone else might do. He said some of the
things had come up in opposition to this and Representative
Sanders indicated that the bill did not mean more money or a
higher price for barged in products on the Kuskokwim. He
said it is not about a monopoly for a certain group of
pilots or anything like that, and it is not about more
regulations, since these regulations were already in place.
He indicated that these pilots had been used up until now.
What it is about, REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS explained, is they
had compromised. First they had the bill where the pilot
took control and the industries wanted the pilot not just to
do that on the ship. They raised the size of the barges up
to 15,000 barrels. He was not sure he could address above
that size and indicated he would let Captain Sumstad do
that. He felt it sounded terribly high.
Most of all, REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said, what the bill was
about was the environment out there on the Yukon Delta,
which has water fowl and wildlife; some of the best in the
United States. Most important, it is about the people out
there and their subsistence life style and their concern
about losing that if there is an oil spill. He said he had
a stack of petitions signed by residents in that area.
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS also indicated he also had Former
Representative Ivan Ivan and Johnny Hawk at the meeting who
live out there. He said the people who live out there are
for this and that is what this bill is for - to protect
these people.
Number 553
CHAIR FOSTER welcomed FORMER REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN to the
committee.
Number 555
MR. IVAN replied it was good to be back and he wanted to
echo some of Representative Sanders' comments in relation to
support of the bill before the committee. He said that his
people see this as a safety measure to protect the lower
Kuskokwim River area. He said he appreciated the necessity
of the oil coming up the river. Their dependence on the
river system, salmon, silvers and uses of subsistence
lifestyle made this bill important to them. He stated that
the compromises have been made to satisfy this bill as much
as possible; however, it would be extremely hard to amend
any accidents that happen out there like you can bills.
Number 573
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON told Mr. Ivan that it was extremely
nice to have him here, and in particular, he wished he were
still around and complimented him on his previous
legislation, which Representative Hudson felt was
outstanding.
Number 583
CHAIR FOSTER requested JOHNNY HAWK, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF
EXECUTIVE OFFICER FOR CALISTA CORPORATION, to testify before
the committee regarding HB 243.
Number 585
MR. HAWK said they represent 56 villages of the 200
communities in the state in rural Alaska. He felt he could
not express enough the importance of this legislation to
this part of Alaska. He said that up to 90 percent of their
diet consists of the salmon on the river, and this is the
primary source of food for an economically distressed area,
as a lot of the committee may be aware. He said it is also
the primary source of income for his people on the Delta.
He said that he understood the amount of income was not a
lot, however, it was enough to sustain a lifestyle coupled
with the subsistence lifestyle of the people now. It is a
protection for a lifestyle for the people, he said.
CHAIR FOSTER requested CAPTAIN CHARLES PHILLIPS, a captain
on the river for 26 years, to speak to the committee.
CAPTAIN PHILLIPS spoke in Yupik to the committee and Former
Representative Ivan Ivan translated for him. Captain
Phillips echoed the concerns and necessity addressed by the
previous speakers, Johnny Hawk and Ivan Ivan, stressing the
importance of the subsistence lifestyle on the people in
this area.
TAPE 93-14, SIDE B
Number 021
MR. IVAN stressed the importance of HB 243 and stated that
the river is their main food source and that they wanted to
protect it.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Captain Sumstad if he could
respond to the question as to what the smallest and largest
size barge deliveries of fuel currently were.
CAPTAIN SUMSTAD replied that 10,000 barrels was currently
the smallest and the largest went from 38,000 to 40,000
barrels. He stated his concerns regarding his fears that
someone would try to transport that amount without a pilot.
Number 100
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS referred to the position paper within
the members' files, pointing specifically to the word
"precedent" within the letter and read that portion of the
position paper: "Passage of this bill will be precedent
setting for the State of Alaska, and possibly the nation.
The establishment of pilot requirements, as stated in this
legislation, will place a requirement on the Board of Marine
Pilots to set a maximum tariff, which will be applicable to
all barge traffic."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS then asked in particular the
application of the word "tariff" within the paper.
Number 200
CARL LUCK, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,
stated that this legislation would be precedent setting for
the State of Alaska and noted that at this time no other
state had requirements such as these. He referred to the
current requirements in relation to foreign traffic.
Number 296
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE voiced his previous concerns, which
related to the fact that there were currently only three
licensed pilots. In the following discussion, it was
indicated that there were currently only two licensed pilots
at this time.
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE then questioned what would happen when
they were not available for the interest of the public
receiving those goods.
Number 326
CARL LUCK replied that piloting regulations contain language
which allow a ship's master to move these barges to haul oil
when pilots are physically not available.
Number 360
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE stated that he hoped the committee
would bear with him and he fully appreciated the intent of
this legislation by the sponsors; however, he felt he needed
to address some of his concerns before the bill passed from
committee. HE noted his concern that HB 243 was creating
legislation for special interest purposes and felt that the
bill had all the appearances of special interest
legislation, which generally results in negative impact to
the public.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Captain Sumstad whether any
foreign bottoms operated on the river at this time.
CAPTAIN SUMSTAD replied that currently foreign bottom barges
hauled fish on the river.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Captain Sumstad whether this
legislation pertained to non-hazardous materials or only to
oil.
Number 402
CAPTAIN SUMSTAD replied that this legislation pertained only
to barges transporting oil.
Number 405
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY questioned the proposed legislation,
Section 1, which required the pilot to control the vessel
during all docking and undocking operations. He felt the
requirement was strange since a master should know his
vessel's characteristics best. He also expressed his
concerns of the liability assumed by the pilot if an
accident should occur.
Number 480
MR. LUCK replied that pilots are required to carry liability
of $250 thousand.
Number 481
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied that $250 thousand was nothing
when dealing with the impact of an oil spill. He expressed
the concern that the State might be assuming the liability
by the license requirement if a spill was caused by a State
licensed pilot and exceeded the amount of $250 thousand.
Number 489
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON questioned Section 1 of the proposed
legislation that required the pilot to control the vessel
during all docking and undocking operations and stated he
was nervous about this provision.
Number 505
CAPTAIN SUMSTAD stated that a pilot does not need to dock
under this legislation and he was surprised by the language
in the bill which required this.
Number 507
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS stated that he did not know this was
included in this legislation and would be glad to eliminate
that provision at this time.
Number 512
CHAIR FOSTER entertained a motion to remove Section 1 from
the proposed legislation. Hearing no objections, the motion
passed.
Number 528
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE addressed his concerns that more
information was needed to examine the economic impact of
compulsory pilotage on the Kuskokwim with respect to fuel
prices in the area. If the costs increase, he said, there
will be a lot of upset people in the impacted area.
Number 535
CAPTAIN SUMSTAD said the people were willing to deal with
the costs of this and noted that this requirement would add
1/2 cent per barrel.
Number 541
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY moved his motion to amend the amount of
barrels from 15,000 to 25,000.
Number 479
CAPTAIN SUMSTAD felt 25,000 was too much weight for the
physical size of the barges.
Number 602
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON and REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE felt they
might feel more comfortable if more data was available
regarding barge sizes and weight capacities.
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE asked why the size of the barge wasn't
stipulated instead.
Number 625
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD brought forward the previous motion by
Representative Vezey which changed the amount of barrels of
oil from 15,000 to 25,000.
Number 630
The motion failed.
Number 632
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD moved HB 243 as amended from the House
Transportation Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIR FOSTER noted hearing no objections, so CSHB 243(TRANS)
was moved from committee with individual recommendations.
Number 636
CHAIR FOSTER mentioned that he would announce on the House
Floor when the other two bills, HB 46 and HB 184, scheduled
for today's meeting would be brought up for committee action
soon. He noted that due to lack of time they would be
rescheduled and he would announce it on the House floor
tomorrow. He adjourned the meeting at 7:00 p.m.
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